From fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 12 11:07:37 2002
Return-Path: <fork-admin@xent.com>
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.netnoteinc.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C39844161
	for <jm@localhost>; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 05:56:12 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1]
	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:56:12 +0100 (IST)
Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org
    (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79IL0b19672 for <jm@jmason.org>;
    Fri, 9 Aug 2002 19:21:03 +0100
Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix)
    with ESMTP id A7591294132; Fri,  9 Aug 2002 11:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
Delivered-To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Received: from smtp1.auracom.net (smtp1.auracom.net [165.154.140.23]) by
    xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68024294109 for <fork@xent.com>;
    Fri,  9 Aug 2002 11:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from maya.dyndns.org (ts5-023.ptrb.interhop.net
    [165.154.190.87]) by smtp1.auracom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id
    g79HpT310568 for <fork@xent.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:51:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by maya.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id ED7CC1C3B5;
    Fri,  9 Aug 2002 14:10:58 -0400 (EDT)
To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Re: David Friedman: Mail Me the Money!
References: <F107yzSSylHVilvg8UU00002cc4@hotmail.com>
    <m2wur0t2a5.fsf@maya.dyndns.org> <3D53F778.3020102@cse.ucsc.edu>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@canada.com>
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
Message-Id: <m2ofcbuclp.fsf@maya.dyndns.org>
Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@canada.com>
X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com
X-Beenthere: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:fork@spamassassin.taint.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork>, <mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare <fork.xent.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork>,
    <mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://xent.com/pipermail/fork/>
Date: 09 Aug 2002 14:10:58 -0400

>>>>> "E" == Elias Sinderson <elias@cse.ucsc.edu> writes:

    E> Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote
    >>>>>>> "R" == Russell Turpin <deafbox@hotmail.com> writes:
    >>>>>>> 
    >>
    R> ... spam is the result of government. The government is
    R> ineffective at preventing spam, but it DOES prevent individuals
    R> and ISPs from taking retribution against spammers.

    >>  I don't understand this assertion.  Can you explain?  ...  So
    >> where does government come in to foster this?
    >> 
    E> The government prevents me from hunting them down and flossing
    E> with their sinew after I'm done with them. 

This only restates the assertion, it doesn't clarify /how/ government
restrains you, other than under laws of criminal conduct and violent
crimes (if you meant the above literally)

If I can trace a spammer to their ISP, I can /generally/ get that
account revoked, and if you trace one to their parent corporation, I
don't know of any law that specifically /exempts/ them from lawsuits,
it's just that no one has yet succeeded in any important way.  If you
have some law that prevents action against spammers, then why all the
class-action suits and other anti-spam court cases, some even
state-funded?

I'm also curious of the mechanics of your retribution strategy: Let's
say you did win a lawsuit and shut down the largest spammer network in
the USA, do you really believe 40 Beijing spammers won't fill the
void?  Do you really believe those 40 are not right now prepping their
mail servers whether or not you prevail over your countrymen? How do
you intend to take legal (and/or violent) action against people a
world away and in a culture you can barely understand let alone
understand how to properly bribe?  

I'm not so hopeful this method can work against aromatherapy viagra
when we can't even track and convict murderous Nigerian mafia, and
they are blatant!  Political solution is a contradiction in terms, and
it's also true that no lawmaker has ever been even a tenth the
catalyst on improving the quality of life in Britain and the western
world as did central heating and the invention of one A.J.Crapper.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork


