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From: Sherry Listgarten <sherry@timesten.com>
To: "'fork@spamassassin.taint.org'" <fork@spamassassin.taint.org>
Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies
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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:58:36 -0700

<snip>
Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good programmer, etc.
</snip>

Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey, jobs are hard to
come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking for a few good
hackers, no Java, no GUI, not even C++ -- just C and Linux and networking
and good old stuff like that. They just raised a wad of money and they're
looking for a few "really good programmers", says the CTO. I know him --
very smart guy. Drives too fast, though, for what that's worth.

Joe Bob says "check it out". I'd be happy to pass on your resume, or you can
send it straight to them. Probably won't matter if I pass it on, since I
don't know you guys anyway...

http://www.netli.com

-- Sherry.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph S. Barrera III [mailto:joe@barrera.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 8:58 AM
> To: Adam L. Beberg
> Cc: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
> Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
> 
> 
> Adam L. Beberg wrote:
>  >>> Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job.
>  >>
>  >> I was talking about the open reqs at Kana (the company I 
> work for).
>  >>  Oh, but programming in Java is beneath you.
>  >
>  > Nope just lacking years and years of it. For some silly 
> reason people
>  > always want things to be reliable, fast, and 
> cross-platform so all my
>  > employers have forced me to code in C :)
> 
> C is more reliable than Java??
> 
> As for cross-platform, C exists on more platforms, but a Java program
> is much easier to move from one platform to another. So I'm not sure
> what you mean.
> 
> I'm not trying to fight a language war, but I'm puzzled by the depth
> of your anti-Java hatred.
> 
>  > I know lots of high school
>  > kiddies with plenty of Java tho, not having to teach people about
>  > pointers or optimization or anything shaves years off the 
> coder boot
>  > time. I'll send them your way when they graduate.
> 
> Pointers. So a language has to have pointers to be real? And 
> references
> don't count, I gather. What's so great about pointers? Why do you
> miss them? If your doing embedded stuff, fine, yes, you need the
> performance and control over memory that C provides. Probably.
> But if your implementing tier N-1 of a tier N system, and pounding
> against a database, then Java is OFTEN a very reasonable choice.
> Especially if you want that system to run without leaking memory.
> 
> Optimization. Who says you can't optimize Java? I can and have,
> and there are good tools that allow you to do it (I use OptimizeIt).
> But usually I find myself optimizing (reducing) database accesses
> instead. I sped one part of the system up by a factor of ten by
> grouping more operations into fewer transactions.
> 
> But this is beside the point. If you have decent C++ experience, and
> have poked around in Java, you should be able to convince most
> employers that you can be trusted writing Java. That's what I did --
> I mean, I joined Kana from Microsoft, and I didn't exactly write
> a lot of Java code at Microsoft.
> 
>  > I'm not displeased you're trying to help, just frustrated that
>  > employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills with
>  > insane years of experience.
> 
> I don't think I've ever interviewed at a place where I actually
> met all the prerequisites. Do you just give up when you don't?
> 
>  > Interview tommorow with Kodak, doing I have no idea what as the
>  > recruiter isnt even sure, but cross your fingers it wont require 10
>  > years of Java and 5 years of Windows/IA-64's device driver 
> experience
>  > (both common requirements).
> 
> I wish you best of luck, and I apologies for being a bitch.
> But God DAMN, you piss me off sometimes. My son occasionally
> displays your "can't-do" attitude and I do my damnest to
> get him to reverse course.
> 
> - Joe
> 
> 

